Some of the new "high end" drivers so touted by a few forum members are arriving now and will soon be pitted against the TC9FD. I also managed to get a TG9FD (8 ohms) fiberglass cone that will be interesting.
The new deluxe beaucoup bux drivers are:
Visaton B60
Scan Speak 10F/8424
Fostex FF105WK
It will be interesting. Still waiting for B60, all others here.
The new deluxe beaucoup bux drivers are:
Visaton B60
Scan Speak 10F/8424
Fostex FF105WK
It will be interesting. Still waiting for B60, all others here.
Hey,
am thankful for your continued preserverence and unrelenting engagment.
Do you mean the Visaton B80?
Regards
am thankful for your continued preserverence and unrelenting engagment.
Do you mean the Visaton B80?
Regards
You are welcome. It is through the generosity of several benefactors on this forum who graciously provided me drivers that enables this kind of data to be collected and presented. They deserve the big thanks!
Yes, sorry - I meant the B80. That is the only one that was on back order so not here yet.
Initial measurements of Scan Speak 10F/8424G00
This driver is a joy to behold in one's hands - it exudes quality and craftsmanship, and it's appearance is backed by superb performance. For $100 each, it should look good, measure great, and sound fantastic. The measurements will show that frequency response, harmonic distortion, impulse response, minimum phase, etc. are all class-leading and excellent. However, the performance is not that much better from the $12 Vifa TC9FD, except for the fact that the Vas and Qts are much smaller, meaning you can get the same performance in a *tiny* cabinet.
The measurements were made in the same sealed spiral TL Nautaloss enclosure with a trapezoidal baffle as previously described elsewhere. The excitation signal was put through a miniDSP to enable a Q=0.7 high-shelf filter to enable a -3dB baffle step correction at 750Hz - as I was doing this to record some sound clips to compare to the other drivers in the "Subjective Blind Comparison..." thread. However, there is a similar measurement of the TC9FD at the same setup. The mic is slightly off axis (located between the woofer and the full range), maybe 10 deg and at 0.5m away. Measurement data is gated for 4 ms and I would not trust anything below 600Hz. The drive voltage is 0.71 volts. Mic is calibrated UMM-6. Amp is custom DUG PCB v0 TPA3116D2.
Here is a photo of the two drivers:
Here is the frequency response for the 10F/8424 vs the TC9FD (5dB/division, 1/48th octave smoothing), the 10F/8424 is smoother, has higher extension, and loses the 12KHz breakup peak - an excellent full range driver that is essentially free of breakup peaks in the 6kHz to 14kHz range - very rare to find this:
Here is the harmonic distortion of the 10F/8424 (slightly better than TC9FD):
Here is the harmonic distortion of the TC9FD:
Here is the Impulse Response of the 10F/8424 (you can see first reflection at 6ms which is why I used a 4ms gate), it has less ringing than the TC9FD:
Here is the Impulse Response of the TC9FD:
Here is the Minimum Phase of the 10F/8424:
Here is the Minimum Phase of the TC9FD:
Here is the CSD of the 10F/8424 with 0.1ms risetime and 4ms window:
Here is the CSD of the TC9FD with same settings:
The measurements clearly show that the 10F/8424 is a better driver than the TC9FD, but at almost 10x the price, I am not sure if it is that much better. The main advantage is the smoother frequency response with cleaner impulse response and slightly lower harmonic distortion. Under a listening test, I am not sure one could pick out the two - but we will see when I compare sound clips in the other thread.
Initial listening impressions are that the 10F/8424 sounds very balanced, excellent detail, clear and clean with very low distortion. It will be interesting to start designing some enclosures for it that are now very small, I am so used to rather large boxes to accommodate the large Vas of the TC9FD. I guess you could call this a better-TC9FD that fits in compact boxes.
This driver is a joy to behold in one's hands - it exudes quality and craftsmanship, and it's appearance is backed by superb performance. For $100 each, it should look good, measure great, and sound fantastic. The measurements will show that frequency response, harmonic distortion, impulse response, minimum phase, etc. are all class-leading and excellent. However, the performance is not that much better from the $12 Vifa TC9FD, except for the fact that the Vas and Qts are much smaller, meaning you can get the same performance in a *tiny* cabinet.
The measurements were made in the same sealed spiral TL Nautaloss enclosure with a trapezoidal baffle as previously described elsewhere. The excitation signal was put through a miniDSP to enable a Q=0.7 high-shelf filter to enable a -3dB baffle step correction at 750Hz - as I was doing this to record some sound clips to compare to the other drivers in the "Subjective Blind Comparison..." thread. However, there is a similar measurement of the TC9FD at the same setup. The mic is slightly off axis (located between the woofer and the full range), maybe 10 deg and at 0.5m away. Measurement data is gated for 4 ms and I would not trust anything below 600Hz. The drive voltage is 0.71 volts. Mic is calibrated UMM-6. Amp is custom DUG PCB v0 TPA3116D2.
Here is a photo of the two drivers:
Here is the frequency response for the 10F/8424 vs the TC9FD (5dB/division, 1/48th octave smoothing), the 10F/8424 is smoother, has higher extension, and loses the 12KHz breakup peak - an excellent full range driver that is essentially free of breakup peaks in the 6kHz to 14kHz range - very rare to find this:
Here is the harmonic distortion of the 10F/8424 (slightly better than TC9FD):
Here is the harmonic distortion of the TC9FD:
Here is the Impulse Response of the 10F/8424 (you can see first reflection at 6ms which is why I used a 4ms gate), it has less ringing than the TC9FD:
Here is the Impulse Response of the TC9FD:
Here is the Minimum Phase of the 10F/8424:
Here is the Minimum Phase of the TC9FD:
Here is the CSD of the 10F/8424 with 0.1ms risetime and 4ms window:
Here is the CSD of the TC9FD with same settings:
The measurements clearly show that the 10F/8424 is a better driver than the TC9FD, but at almost 10x the price, I am not sure if it is that much better. The main advantage is the smoother frequency response with cleaner impulse response and slightly lower harmonic distortion. Under a listening test, I am not sure one could pick out the two - but we will see when I compare sound clips in the other thread.
Initial listening impressions are that the 10F/8424 sounds very balanced, excellent detail, clear and clean with very low distortion. It will be interesting to start designing some enclosures for it that are now very small, I am so used to rather large boxes to accommodate the large Vas of the TC9FD. I guess you could call this a better-TC9FD that fits in compact boxes.
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xrk971,
Great thanks finesse add high cost it seems. A sidenote could be if those produced in Denmark our society is designed such that this will increase the cost of local production compared to production cost other countries.
Looking forward out in time when you will find a perfect enclosure home for it that will utilizing the device's specifications best.
Great thanks finesse add high cost it seems. A sidenote could be if those produced in Denmark our society is designed such that this will increase the cost of local production compared to production cost other countries.
Looking forward out in time when you will find a perfect enclosure home for it that will utilizing the device's specifications best.
You are right, my mistake - the Qts is 0.37 for 10F/8424 and 0.89 for TC9FD. that will make for a much smaller vented cabinet though.
10F/8424G00:
http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/10f-8424g00.pdf
TC9FD18-08:
http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/264-1062-vifa-tc9fd-18-08-specifications.pdf
There used to be a time when they were all under one roof... don't know the history of the TG/TC line and the Scan Speak 10F but the XT25 tweeter from Vifa does have family ties.
Yes there some quistions there, seem marketing and business strategies play a role to have a well spread product range. Also look at CPU's under the hood many is same but locked to their price range. Products precision and quality could very well be as good crafted made in eastern countries as made in Denmark, think marketing strategies and profit decisions determines that.
This is the "rare" 8 ohm version of the TG9FD. It is rated 10 watts.
It is very interesting physically - a little different than the TC9FD frame: the basket has only 3-arms not 4, the voice coil former appears to be a metal (probably aluminum) tube - probably reduces Qes. The photo on Madisound looks different as the magnet structure appears rotated 45 deg similarly to the photo for the 4 ohm TG9FD.
Actually, the spec sheet from Vifa says the TG9FD10-08 is rated at 25 watts.
http://quint-audio.com/qaudio/files/tg9fd-10-08_spec_sheet_rve_2_0_090612.pdf
105Hz fs
Qts of 0.72
1 liter Vas
84.4 dB at 2.83v
http://quint-audio.com/qaudio/files/tg9fd-10-08_spec_sheet_rve_2_0_090612.pdf
105Hz fs
Qts of 0.72
1 liter Vas
84.4 dB at 2.83v
Many different ones, these may be original???
TC
http://www.lautsprechershop.de/pdf/vifa/vifa_9bn119_8.pdf
TG
http://www.lautsprechershop.de/pdf/vifa/vifa_9bg119_08.pdf
TC
http://www.lautsprechershop.de/pdf/vifa/vifa_9bn119_8.pdf
TG
http://www.lautsprechershop.de/pdf/vifa/vifa_9bg119_08.pdf
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