Early Grangers

[Woodlakejag]

Thanks to another forum member, two rare rods were added to the rack. And I would speculate that two rods of this make/model haven’t been in the in the same rack since about 1917 at The Granger Brothers Mercantile in Denver. Two Denver Specials, both 9043

[60InchDV8]

Congrats....Very nice. Looks like the kind of rods that Norman Maclean would have used to cast his bugs with..
Can you provide some more pics and details. I haven’t seen these before....Thanks
Regards from Canada.....Jim

[Flyman615]

Great find.

However, the Second Era 9043 Denver Specials didn't appear in Granger catalogs until about 1927.

Would like to see a few more photos if and when you have time!

Scott Z.

[Woodlakejag]

Scott/Jim,
These are 1st era, maybe more accurately just called Specials. it’s the same model/era that’s posted on finecane as “first era Special” here (except mine are a different ferrule size, with 17/64 and 11/64.):
https://www.finecane.com/product/goodwi ... cial-9050/
It’s also the same model/era as the rod in Micheal’s book referenced as the earliest known Granger, although a few more of these have shown up since the book was published in 2010.
I’ll see if I can get some better pictures up this afternoon. Neither rod is refinished, so they are much rougher than the one on finecane. But, all the details (seat, signature wraps, ferrules, except for size) are the same.
George

[Flyman615]

Hi George:

Ah ha! I couldn't tell that from your initial photo, but perhaps needless to say, the First Era 'Special' rods are MUCH rarer than any Grangers made in the Second Era.

And of course they also have much different tapers (non-swelled butts) and fittings. That said, I don't think any carried the 9043 designation as such at that time (1917-18).

I also have an all-original First Era 9 ft. Granger with 17/11 ferrules and weighing 4 3/4 oz., but it's a DeLuxe grade rod. A delicate trout rod for sure!

Looking forward to see more photos of your rods!

Scott

[Woodlakejag]

[Woodlakejag]

Both are 4.8 on the scale, which is surprising since one is missing the stripping guide and a few snakes.
Big day for me, I finally got a postimage account took the plunge into full size pictures.

[Woodlakejag]

[60InchDV8]

Thanks George,
Are you planning on a restoration project with these lovely rods?

[Flyman615]

Thank you, George!

As you know, these earliest of Grangers have different reel seats and ferrules from all later rods (see my Avatar for an original 9'6").

Very distinctive, as are the full Wells grips on your rods, and indeed rare. Congrats!

Scott

[Woodlakejag]

I’ll add another bit of early Granger history to this. In Michael’s book, he states that Goodwin and his brother, Guy Granger, moved to Denver in 1908 and started Goodwin Brothers Mercantile in 1912. Guy Granger disappears from the family history in 1915 and Sinclair indicates that he may have died in WWI, although there is no record of what happened to him.
Since the Granger book was published in 2010 the information available online has grown and I was able to find Guy’s headstone, along with his burial location in their hometown of Tekonsha Village, MI. He died November 1, 1914. This left responsibility of the Mercantile to Goodwin, who at the time was working at the Denver National Bank, and is probably the time that Goodwin starts experimenting with rod building. I would agree with Sinclair that the earliest Grangers (such as these) are probably “Mercantile” rods, made for selling in the store, and I would guess that they predate the first advertisement of 1919 and the real “first era” of 1918-1922.

[Woodlakejag]

Jim,
As far as restorations go, I believe in keeping historic rods as original as possible. One of these rods has all its guides, ferrules fit good, and is stable enough to be lawn cast and very lightly fished, so I will keep it protected and “as is”. The other will need a few guides rewrapped and some varnish touched up. But it won’t be entirely stripped and rewrapped. I don’t have that done to rods unless it is absolutely necessary due to total varnish meltdown, delaminations, or short sections.
George

[adkfan]

Very nice, I have a first era Premier that is just a lovely rod

[finecane]

I would agree with Sinclair that the earliest Grangers (such as these) are probably “Mercantile” rods, made for selling in the store, and I would guess that they predate the first advertisement of 1919 and the real “first era” of 1918-1922.

Hi George,
Congrats on the 2 Specials! They look great on the rack together.

I want to propose another thought on dating these rods. First, a huge caveat... Since we do not have a Granger catalog prior to 1923, it is impossible to say anything about 1st era rods with 100% certainty. What we do have are advertisements from that era that include photos of the Special grade and even a few "new" grade names (DeLuxe & Premier).

If you look very closely at the first ads with photographs (April 1920, June 1920 and March 1921) you'll notice the reel seat appears to be slotted and certainly has an elongated end cap. Compare that reel seat to the one on your Specials, which resembles the reel seats beginning in April 1921 and all 1922 advertisements. There is a clear difference in these 2 types of reel seats. (Also, the wraps on your Specials [and mine], match perfectly with those after April 1921. I don't believe that there is enough clarity of the wraps in ads prior to April 1921.)

Looking at JUST the advertisements (remember, we don't have photo catalogs), I'm throwing this out to the other Granger gurus, and realize that it may spark some heated debate... or even considered blasphemy! We may have not yet seen a Granger rod that dates prior to April 1921. None of the known first era rods in prominent Granger collections exhibit a reel seat that resembles anything close to the ones in those first photo ads.

I am working on an article that illustrates this more visually, and any debate, documentation, commentary, or discussion that could add clarity to this issue would be most appreciated!

You can see all of the early ads for yourself here (click on each one to enlarge):
https://www.finecane.com/gg-advertising/

BTW - If you'd like your Specials to have permanent digital home on the Finecane website, please let me know and we can get them posted for you.

Bryan

[Flyman615]

Just something for you to consider, Bryan.

The photos in the ads you cite are really "half tones". That is, they are made up of thousands of very tiny dots for better reproduction in the plate or offset printing processes. (Check it out with a magnifying glass.)

As an old newspaperman, I can tell you that half tones do have limited capability/detail when it comes to shiny metal surfaces and 'highlights' or reflection. Therefore, what appears to be "slotting" of the reel seat may not be such at all.

Scott Z.

[Woodlakejag]

Bryan,
Feel free to use any pictures I post here if you want them for the site.
I took a look at the ads again and I agree, on closer inspection the pre 1921 rods look different. So, I took a stroll through Richard’s Antique Rod & Reel Library to see if anything caught my eye...and something did. I shouldn’t be surprised. A circa 1910 A&I by the Montague City Rod Company with what appears to be a very similar reel seat (Pictures below courtesy of your site and Richards).

So, if a pre-1921 Granger is floating around, and assuming it’s unmarked, it may have early Monty components and could easily get misidentified as an early Monty rod. If I was on the hunt, that’s what I would look for, with the key distinguishing feature being the 1st era granger grip.

[finecane]

Hi Scott, I was hoping that you'd weigh in on this! Thanks.

I agree that it is certainly possible for the slotting to be a result of the printing process. While I was never in the newspaper business, I am quite familiar with the limitations associated with newsprint (i.e., the printing process, low resolution (lpi), halftone dot patterns, etc.) as a Graphic Designer for 25+ years. I have scanned these ads (at 600dpi) from their original publications and studied them all through a printer's loupe.

Again, totally possible that the slotting an artifact of the printing process, but that's not what I'm seeing in the images in the high res scans. Also, the end cap is something that is totally unique on the pre-1921 ads. I can't make an argument that the long end cap is also a byproduct of printing in that era.

Thanks again,
Bryan

[Flyman615]

So why aren't we also talking about the distinctively longer machined n/s ferrules found on some, but not all, of the First Era Granger rods? (My 9 1/2 ft. Special included.)

What, say you all, is their origin and when were they used?
I'm betting they're not Montague.

Scott

[Woodlakejag]

Scott,
I don’t know about the ferrules, but if the first era was approximately five years, that’s a lot of time for variation.
Some more food for thought: according to Keane, the first EC Powell rods of this time (1918) either had Monty seats or seats that looked a lot like Montague products. Maybe that puzzle has been solved? Not sure, but I’m on the list for Pers book! EC was also making grips that flared at the top, like these.
More food for thought: Wes Jordan started building rods in 1918. I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised by this coincidence. I just finished re-listening to Malcolm Gladwell's book Outliers, which makes the argument that it’s less about individual talent than it is about the conditions being right. Post WWI America was ripe for a wave of rod builders who looked at the rods of the Leonard apprentices and decided that rather than selling their rods, they would make their own...

The absolute best thing about this mystery is that the Granger ads make it clear there were catalogs printed for this time period. One will show up. Attics get cleaned out every day. I also wouldn’t be surprised if a catalog for the mercantile showed up.

George

[Flyman615]

George:

Just another thought...it seems Granger used several different grip shapes in multiple eras.

I've also seen the 'half Wells' grips, like those on your two early Specials, on rods in the Second and Third eras as well. In fact, I have one representative rod from each of those two eras with that particular grip shape.

And I'd bet some grip shapes were even done via special orders/requests.

Scott