Wigan Album
Railways
32 Comments
Photo: Mick Langton
Item #: 25488
To: David Wilcock,
“Running Free”
Steam Railway magazine
Hi David,
Further to your enquiry in “Running Free” on pages 80/81 of ‘Steam Railway’ No 431 and where you were attempting to ascertain the circumstances surrounding Ivatt pacific No 46257 ‘City of Salford’ being photographed on Newton Heath depot in September 1964.
As a major part of the research for the recently-published commemorative book “1964 - Last Summer of the Duchesses”, a survey had been conducted of all of the known sightings, throughout the entire 1964 summer timetable, of the remaining 18 working members of the class. The spreadsheet that ensued currently contains no less than 800 entries and 'City of Salford's' final turns of duty - that included this exceptionally unusual, and probably unique, visit to a North Manchester depot - are certainly documented, albeit accompanied by little additional detail.
Ostensibly remaining in traffic until the last week in service of the class – but, apparently, performing little work during the final days, its appearance in Manchester for the ‘Railway Queen’ event coincided with the official last day (46256 excepted, of course!).
During that final week, on 5th September this 12A Kingmoor loco had worked an unidentified express northwards from Carlisle to Perth (which was probably the overnight sleeper from Euston to Oban (1S03) and then spent the day on Perth shed before returning south with 1M12, the 21-50 sleeper to Euston. Despite being seen on Kingmoor shed a day or so later, there is no evidence that 46257 worked any more turns from that date forward, but very shortly afterwards it did somehow find its way south to Lostock Hall MPD near Preston and where I photographed it inside the shed building on 9th August 1964, parked in front of Kitson 0-4-0ST No 47002 (coincidentally also withdrawn 4 days earlier) on No 4 road, with numberplate, nameplates and motion removed and with a sack over its chimney.
Although, at that stage, we were not aware of the reasons surrounding this unusual visit - and, indeed, why it had occurred at all – closer examination of my, not all that clear photograph, nevertheless does suggest that, with part of the motion lying alongside, this was to provide cover for the fitting staff whilst they put the loco back into working order and re-fitted the nameplates, etc.
By 11th September, 46257 had been steamed and had headed off down the main line the 15 miles to Wigan Springs Branch shed. There is another photograph in existence depicting it stood there, outside the shed in steam, having received a thorough grooming … that even extended to the inside of its cab receiving a fresh coat of rather sickly pale green paint.
It was also at Springs Branch that a “Welcome to Britain’s Railway Queen” headboard was fitted to the smokebox door.
As we now know, this was all in preparation for a move to Manchester the following day, in order to provide an appropriate presence during that part of the ‘British Railways Queen’ ceremony that seemed to have been planned to take place at Victoria station. Presumably 46257 was selected for this honour, in view of the fact that the, arguably more appropriate contender, No 46246 'City of Manchester' had already been scrapped and, of course, Victoria/Exchange station was situated in Salford anyway.
The young lady who was to be crowned that day (this taking place, as it did every year, at the Belle Vue stadium), was 15-year-old Norma Corrigan from Miles Platting – a florist’s shop assistant employed at the time in Newton Heath and the daughter of 9D Newton Heath and one-time 26G Belle Vue driver, Norman (“Nobby”) Corrigan.
What actually transpired at Manchester Victoria must have been a relatively low-key event, for quite unusually, none of the local enthusiasts that I have approached for information appears to have any recollection of it even happening and nothing seems to have been reported in the railway press. The most surprising factor of all appears to be that, in the absence of any mention in the media, BR had lost out on a superb PR exercise here … although, to the local press, 46257 would probably have been just another steam train and not even worthy of column space.
In answer to your specific question, at no point did the pacific appear to have worked a train – with all of its movements being performed merely on a light-engine basis. This was the only currently known occasion (certainly in the pre-preservation era) that an LMS pacific is known to have appeared on Newton Heath depot and, as such, must have caused much interest to local footplatemen ... although little, if anything, was ever published even in the railway press of the time. One of the very few that did find out about the visit was the late Jimmy Carter, who, as a 9H Patricroft fireman, always took his camera with him when on duty.
What remains unclear today and, quite unusually, of which none of those local enthusiasts approached for information appears to have any recollection, is whether 46257 ran directly from Springs Branch to Manchester Victoria’s Platform 11 (the long one that connected Victoria to Exchange), or whether it arrived there via Newton Heath, having been coaled, watered and then turned to face west. Whatever the case, according to former Newton Heath fireman, Richard Cort, at some stage in the day, he recollected the driver as actually being Nobby Corrigan himself.
I recently took the opportunity to visit the archives of the Manchester Central Library and where my daughter and I went through all the back issues of the Manchester Evening News of the period. That absolutely nothing was discovered in print relating to any aspect of the Railway Queen event, or even to the Belle Vue Carnival for that matter, perhaps lends fuel to my suspicion that the only involvement of the locomotive was in its brief cameo appearance at Victoria. Certainly, whether or not Norma accompanied her father on the footplate for the short journey to/from Newton Heath is now almost certainly something that we seem likely now never to discover!
Immediately following the ceremony, 46257 ran light back to Lostock Hall shed and, this being the day that the class were officially supposed to be withdrawn anyway, it was placed on one of the former coal-stack roads to have its tender emptied. Sometime afterwards, it was towed over to the long-closed Preston shed to join other withdrawn locos in store there.
Presumably, as Kingmoor depot still ‘owned’ the engine, they must have requested its return to Carlisle, for, very clearly, someone had already made plans for its disposal that did not include any of the English scrapyards! Consequently, on 28th November 1964, it journeyed north again to join other withdrawn 12A/12B class members in the Upperby scrap line. Being hauled dead in a freight train headed by Black 5 No 44934, this was to be the final time that a (BR-owned) Duchess would ascend Shap Fell and Maurice Burns’ picture of it passing through Tebay on its final journey forms a poignant closing image to the 'Last Summer of the Duchesses' book.
Great photo Mick of a bonny steam loco.
Great photo,to me, this was a semi,sitytwo,fifty seven,probally seeing it once a week ,through the late fifties,in the summer time,trainspotting at whitley crossing was mainly a summer thing.once again great photo
British engineering at it's best, a powerful living machine!
Thanks Mick.
This class was the most powerful steam passenger locomotive built in Britain, more powerful than any LNER or the King class on GWR, or any the Southern Rail had. Great photo Mick
Just looking at this giant of British engineering, exudes grandeur, and power. What a great era. The age of steam.
A great photo of one of the last of the class to be built. This and it's sister "Sir William A Stanier FRS" were Ivatt modifications and can easily be told apart from others in the class because of the reverser showing from the cab and the cut off cab bottom. Although the footplate is cut off at the front buffer/smokebox area these two locos were never streamlined as others in the class with cut off footplates. Those with curved footplates (eg 46232 Duchess of Montrose) were never streamlined. They were originally 7P power classification but later classed 8P making the class and 71000 Duke of Gloucester the most powerful passenger locos on the LMR. These were the crack express top link locos of the day, along with the Princess class locos and could be seen pulling trains such as "The Royal Scot" and "The Caledonian". All gone as trains but at least 3 of the class survive. 6229 Duchess of Hamilton is now re streamlined at the National Railway Museum, York. 46233 Duchess of Sutherland is on the main line pulling charter trains and 46235 City of Birmingham is in Think Tank Birmingham. All super locos that were the best for looks.
With reference to my recent contribution I wrote "footplate" when I actually meant running plate. For those who are not aware the footplate is usually the cab area and this then extends to the front of the loco and is referred to as the running plate. Sorry about that mistake.I should have read it through more carefully.
Yes George, you right, an easy mistake.
What a beautiful engine this is.
Takes me back to my apprentice days at the Vulcan. Although production of steam locos had ended the manufacture of spares continued for several years. My first job after leaving the training school was the finishing of a batch of reversing links. Operated by a four start square threaded rod from the cab. A couple of turns of the wheel and the link shot across to reverse the direction of travel.
What aggravates me is when people call the loco's trains I was taught the correct expression is engine, I was pulled up a few times for calling them trains, even so called experts fall into the same trap, but hey ho thats just me reminiscing
What aggravates me is when people call the loco's trains I was taught the correct expression is engine, I was pulled up a few times for calling them trains, even so called experts fall into the same trap, but hey ho thats just me reminiscing
Its an engine...a train is when it has wagons or coaches. keep calm atich.
The 'City of Salford' looked to be a very fine looking Choo Choo
I recollect these locomotives were always referred to as side panellers,. Were these panels there for aerodynamic reasons?.
Beautiful engine.
ANECDOTE....
When I was much younger in 1958 I was given a Hornby Dublo trainset for Christmas. It was "The Royal Scot" with 46232 Duchess of Montrose, a loco of the same class as in the photo. The following year or maybe 1960, we were going on our first proper holiday to Blackpool for a week. (none of them foreign holidays then and one up from a charabanc ride to Southport for a day) When we were waiting on Bank Quay station and we were asked on the Tannoy (remember them?) to stand well back as the fire brigade were in attendance to inspect a train not scheduled to stop. It was Duchess of Montrose with the Royal Scot headboard on the front top of the smokebox. The last carriage had been observed to have smoke coming from it some way back. Most likely Walton Junction box. That was it for me and trains have been a passion for the last 56 years. The spooky thing about 46232 is that my mum was to get me a new model version in 2004 for Christmas but it was delayed in production and I got it the day after her funeral. The more spooky thing is that my Dad died in April 80, so the 4th month, Mum died in June so the 6th month and the grave number is 232. So relevant 4-6-232. Lastly the train stopped at Bank Quay would have been given a 7 bell code to the next box meaning "Stop and examine" They lived in a house number 7. Spoooooooky Mmm?
If this gets on here in time, tomorrow, @ 08.15 Sat 29th August 14, 46233 Duchess of Sutherland will be blasting through Wigan North Western on a charter. It is green livery as the photo.
URGENT CHANGE OF INFO>>>>>>
The date in my last post Should be SATURDAY 30th August not 29th Aug.................... Please correct the post.
George, the schedule on the website: http://www.onthemain.co.uk/locomotives/6233-duchess-of-sutherland, doesn't show it going through Wigan in either direction.
46233 will indeed be passing through Wigan North Western this Saturday morning at 0815(if its on time) but I doubt there will be too much "blasting" as it will be crossing the junction from the Manchester line, Full timings here.....http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U50607/2014/08/30/advanced
Here is a link to the Duchess' schudule on Saturday. The link provided by the Rev only gives the pick up points. It doesn't stop at Wigan. http://www.uksteam.info/tours/t14/t0830a.htm
Has anyone any knowledge relating to my previous comment, and query, relative to the function, or functions of the panels on this locomotive, and other locomotives of a similar construction?
Albert
The side panels were what was known as smoke deflectors and as their name implies, their function was to deflect smoke up and over the loco, which kept the drivers vision of the line ahead clear.
Albert, I think the panels you refer to were smoke deflectors used to deflect smoke away from the cab.
Thank you Stuart/John for the info given.
Having received the answer to my query from Stuart, and John, I have to ask the following question of former steam locomotive engineers, or steam engine enthusiasts. Why weren't all steam locomotives fitted with these panels? Good visibility for the engine driver would seem to be a crucial factor. All the steam locomotives belched smoke.
Albert, the deflectors were only needed on later locomotives which were faster and more efficient, energywise. they produced 'softer'smoke which clung to the side of the boiler rather than being forced upwards from the chimney. The deflectors trap the air from the front of the loco and force it upwards taking the smoke with it.
Thank you again John, for your speedy, and concise answer.
the need for deflectos only arose when double chimneys where fitted the soft exhaust blast meant steam swirled along the barrel of the boiler ,impairing the drivers vision of the track in front.
Gentlemen. All your comments, relevant to my question regarding the side panels, are all exceedingly interesting, and I thank you for taking the time to explain why they were placed there, and their functions.
Interesting. I took photos of 46256 going north on 5th September 1964 from Preston shed. Inside the shed at the end of a road behind some super D's was 46257 'City of Salford' .The inside of the cab seemed to have been painted white. what happened to the loco after that I do not know, however it was definitely in that situation on 5th September.
Regards Alan McGunnigle PS I now live in New Zealand!
I photographed 46257 coming onto shed dirty at Newton Heath. The next day or so it was thoroughly cleaned. I was told it was for the Railway Queen. Jubilee Hood arrived at the same time and was thoroughly cleaned as standby loco for 46257. I visited it twice while she was there. Very rare.