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[dark10x]

The original Tomb Raider for the PC did support different hardware acceleration (3DFX, Matrox, Rage Pro, etc) and could render up to 1024*768 (I think this is the highest it went) with a framerate that was locked at 30FPS. But the framerate never went above 30 on the PC. Though the native software renderer is locked at 640*480 with maybe an option for 320*240. I would have to look at the game again.

Heh, what a mess it was back then.

The original 1996 version of Tomb Raider didn't actually ship with 3D support at all but later releases of the PC version included a "3dpatch" folder with support for 3D cards, as you noted. Voodoo 1, Voodoo Rush, Matrox Mystique 2 and 4mb variants (different exes), PowerVR PCX1 and 2, Rendition Verite, and S3 Virge.

The maximum resolution for the game on most cards was just 640x480. Voodoo 1, for instance, could only run at 512x384 or 640x480. The Voodoo 2 upped that to 800x600 and, if you ran TWO V2s in SLI, you could hit 1024x768. Not sure the DOS Glide version of TR supported any higher than 640x480.

The PowerVR cards could do up to 1024x768, though, which was rad and it did look good in TR.

...and yeah, it's a shame it was locked at 30fps but I'm not sure those early 3D cards could have done much better and the results could have been wildly variable.

The Mystique was actually a great way to play TR, though, as it did not support hardware texture filtering. At the time this was bad news BUT, going back to those games in 2016, I actually prefer the way the textures look without filtering.

It would have been pretty difficult to support the various standards back then especially when dealing with a DOS game.

Also, I just checked, and the software version is 320x240. All of the menus are 640x480 but, in game, it jumps to 320x240. Need to see if it can be switched to 640x480 somewhere else.

 

[LordAlu]

I remember Saturn's Duke Nukem 3D played better because its gameplay was better suited to the Saturn's gamepad, but Saturn Quake was a marvel because it ran at all in spite of all the adjustments to its levels.

Having both was also essential to unlocking Deathtank Zwei.

READY FOR ACTION

 

[KyleSmash]

Enjoyed the video, look forward to more. Even more than the video, I'm really enjoying the conversation in this thread. Having people familiar with these histories, first hand, is amazing.

 

[MrCunningham]

Heh, what a mess it was back then.

The original 1996 version of Tomb Raider didn't actually ship with 3D support at all but later releases of the PC version included a "3dpatch" folder with support for 3D cards, as you noted. Voodoo 1, Voodoo Rush, Matrox Mystique 2 and 4mb variants (different exes), PowerVR PCX1 and 2, Rendition Verite, and S3 Virge.

The maximum resolution for the game on most cards was just 640x480. Voodoo 1, for instance, could only run at 512x384 or 640x480. The Voodoo 2 upped that to 800x600 and, if you ran TWO V2s in SLI, you could hit 1024x768. Not sure the DOS Glide version of TR supported any higher than 640x480.

The PowerVR cards could do up to 1024x768, though, which was rad and it did look good in TR.

...and yeah, it's a shame it was locked at 30fps but I'm not sure those early 3D cards could have done much better and the results could have been wildly variable.

The Mystique was actually a great way to play TR, though, as it did not support hardware texture filtering. At the time this was bad news BUT, going back to those games in 2016, I actually prefer the way the textures look without filtering.

It would have been pretty difficult to support the various standards back then especially when dealing with a DOS game.

Also, I just checked, and the software version is 320x240. All of the menus are 640x480 but, in game, it jumps to 320x240. Need to see if it can be switched to 640x480 somewhere else.

Looking at this video here of the game running on a Pentium 233MMX with a PowerVR PCX2 card at 1024x768, the game looked pretty sharp: https://youtu.be/5GMesT4WKzI?t=304 and runs at a pretty stable 30fps. Though back in 1996, a Pentium 233MMX would've been a really high end commercial CPU.

For me, I used to play Tomb Raider on my parents Windows 95 system, which had a Pentium 1 150mz CPU and an S3ViRge card. I remember having to download the S3 ViRGE patch separately through a 56k modem, but the ViRGE card did have some support for texture correction, bilinear filtering and 640x480 resolution max. It honestly didn't look bad with the texture correction on, but the framerate struggled to get into the 30's most of the time. But at the time, it still looked better than the PS1 game and I didn't care about drops in framerate.

The first PC that I ever bought with my own money was a Windows 98SE machine with a Celeron 466 and a RagePro card with 4MB of RAM. Tomb Raider actually supported the RagePRO and looked nice at 800x600 and ran at a rock solid 30 (well it should with a 466MHZ CPU) but when I switched over to an Nvidia GeForce card, it didn't support Tomb Raider 1 at all. Which was a shame. But the GeForce card did support the other Tomb Raider games that came out after.

And I agree that a lot of older PC games look better with the filtering off. Though if you can get 3D acceleration for perspective correction and higher resolution and framerates and disable texture filtering, then you are getting the best of both worlds.

Also, I just checked, and the software version is 320x240. All of the menus are 640x480 but, in game, it jumps to 320x240. Need to see if it can be switched to 640x480 somewhere else.

Ahh... my memory was fuzzy on that. It would make sense if it only supported 320x240 in software. Though I could have sworn that it did go higher.

 

[Sciz]

Unfortunately, it's way too bright and colorful. It feels vibrant and looks nice but it loses a lot of the atmosphere. It's like GLQuake taken to its extreme. GLQ never felt as gritty or dark as the original software renderer and Quake 64 goes further in that direction.

Yikes, you weren't kidding. Are there any areas in Q64 that don't use colored lighting?

 

[dark10x]

Yikes, you weren't kidding. Are there any areas in Q64 that don't use colored lighting?

Heh, not really. It's coated in colored lighting throughout. Definitely feels like the tech team was just having too much fun with the engine.

 

[c0de]

Looking at this video here of the game running on a Pentium 233MMX with a PowerVR PCX2 card at 1024x768, the game looked pretty sharp: https://youtu.be/5GMesT4WKzI?t=304 and runs at a pretty stable 30fps. Though back in 1996, a Pentium 233MMX would've been a really high end commercial CPU.

For me, I used to play Tomb Raider on my parents Windows 95 system, which had a Pentium 1 150mz CPU and an S3ViRge card. I remember having to download the S3 ViRGE patch separately through a 56k modem, but the ViRGE card did have some support for texture correction, bilinear filtering and 640x480 resolution max. It honestly didn't look bad with the texture correction on, but the framerate struggled to get into the 30's most of the time. But at the time, it still looked better than the PS1 game and I didn't care about drops in framerate.

The first PC that I ever bought with my own money was a Windows 98SE machine with a Celeron 466 and a RagePro card with 4MB of RAM. Tomb Raider actually supported the RagePRO and looked nice at 800x600 and ran at a rock solid 30 (well it should with a 466MHZ CPU) but when I switched over to an Nvidia GeForce card, it didn't support Tomb Raider 1 at all. Which was a shame. But the GeForce card did support the other Tomb Raider games that came out after.

And I agree that a lot of older PC games look better with the filtering off. Though if you can get 3D acceleration for perspective correction and higher resolution and framerates and disable texture filtering, then you are getting the best of both worlds.



Ahh... my memory was fuzzy on that. It would make sense if it only supported 320x240 in software. Though I could have sworn that it did go higher.

I wonder how good it can look when you emulate the psx version. You can increase the resolution and if I heard correctly there are now plugins that add perspective correct texture mapping.

 

[dark10x]

I wonder how good it can look when you emulate the psx version. You can increase the resolution and if I heard correctly there are now plugins that add perspective correct texture mapping.

You have a link, by any chance? Would love to see that.

 

[Dragon1893]

The original Tomb Raider for the PC did support different hardware acceleration (3DFX, Matrox, Rage Pro, etc) and could render up to 1024*768 (I think this is the highest it went) with a framerate that was locked at 30FPS. But the framerate never went above 30 on the PC. Though the native software renderer is locked at 640*480 with maybe an option for 320*240. I would have to look at the game again.



Also interesting to note that the original Lara Croft model was designed for the Saturn first and optimized to be rendered in quads and then it was ported over to the PS1. The Saturn was the lead development platform for Tomb Raider up to a point to where they shifted gears over to the PS1, because it was just better equipped at running the game at higher framerates. And it really shows in some of the larger areas in the game.

Here is the original Lara Croft Saturn model:

PS1 vs Saturn:

The PS1 version uses the Saturn model, but does increase the colour depth and resolution of the model textures and also applies gouraud shading to try and give the models a smoother and rounder appearance. The PS1 model is technically higher poly, because everything is constructed out of triangles instead of four sided shapes.

Since Core axed the Saturn version of Tomb Raider 2, the sequel was more focused on the Playstation and Lara's model received some refinements to better suit the PS1 hardware. Since they didn't have to worry about rendering everything in quads. But her model overall wasn't massively higher polygon for TR2, but I think it was better designed to work with triangles.

Reminds me of the differences between the character models in Resident Evil, though unlike TR, that was developed first for the PS.
I was really happy to get a port of RE but the inferior looking characters really bugged me. I did end up buying a PS later and one of the main reasons was to be able to play RE2&3.

 

[Ferr986]

The original Tomb Raider for the PC did support different hardware acceleration (3DFX, Matrox, Rage Pro, etc) and could render up to 1024*768 (I think this is the highest it went) with a framerate that was locked at 30FPS. But the framerate never went above 30 on the PC. Though the native software renderer is locked at 640*480 with maybe an option for 320*240. I would have to look at the game again.



Also interesting to note that the original Lara Croft model was designed for the Saturn first and optimized to be rendered in quads and then it was ported over to the PS1. The Saturn was the lead development platform for Tomb Raider up to a point to where they shifted gears over to the PS1, because it was just better equipped at running the game at higher framerates. And it really shows in some of the larger areas in the game.

Here is the original Lara Croft Saturn model:

PS1 vs Saturn:

The PS1 version uses the Saturn model, but does increase the colour depth and resolution of the model textures and also applies gouraud shading to try and give the models a smoother and rounder appearance. The PS1 model is technically higher poly, because everything is constructed out of triangles instead of four sided shapes.

Since Core axed the Saturn version of Tomb Raider 2, the sequel was more focused on the Playstation and Lara's model received some refinements to better suit the PS1 hardware. Since they didn't have to worry about rendering everything in quads. But her model overall wasn't massively higher polygon for TR2, but I think it was better designed to work with triangles.

I remember having TR on the Saturn and a friend had it for his PSX.

Yeah PSX looked better, although I kind of liked of the Saturn version was more... dark? it seemed more moody. But yeah Lara looked worse and hard that polygons moving effect.

Yep, I was that guy with a Saturn when everyone had a PSX.

 

[plagiarize]

If this video does well I'll do Quake 2 PSX and the two N64 Quake games

A game I've always wanted to see a deepish dive on, engine wise, is Rebellion's first AvP on PC. That engine was way ahead of its time.

 

[MrCunningham]

Reminds me of the differences between the character models in Resident Evil, though unlike TR, that was developed first for the PS.
I was really happy to get a port of RE but the inferior looking characters really bugged me. I did end up buying a PS later and one of the main reasons was to be able to play RE2&3.

I and a couple others did a few comparisons for the different versions of Resident Evil in a Sega Saturn games at 4K thread:

Saturn vs PS1: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=191962875&postcount=226
Saturn vs PS1 vs NDS: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=192074264&postcount=289
Saturn vs PS1 vs NDS part 2: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=192095552&postcount=295

PS1:

Saturn:

NDS:

The poor Saturn version had issues with keeping the faces in alignment.

I remember having TR on the Saturn and a friend had it for his PSX.

Yeah PSX looked better, although I kind of liked of the Saturn version was more... dark? it seemed more moody. But yeah Lara looked worse and hard that polygons moving effect.

Yep, I was that guy with a Saturn when everyone had a PSX.

I had the Saturn version of the game as well, because I didn;t own a PS1 back then. And to be honest, I had no problem with Tomb Raider on the Saturn and I thought it looked alright. But then I bought the PC version for a cheap price and that version became my go to version of Tomb Raider. The only problem that I ever really had with the PC version of Tomb Raider 1 was that it only supported 4 button gamepads. Which was a shame. So I had to play the game with a ketboard, which wasn't so bad after getting adjusted to the controls.

 

[ghibli99]

^ LOL @ that Saturn pic! What a face!

Great video. Brings back wonderful memories of that era. I was a Quake PC guy (never did play it on Saturn), and always enjoy seeing things run pretty well on hardware never designed for it. The mindset and approach is kinda similar to demosceners back in the day, achieving seemingly impossible results (or faking it good enough) on old/slow hardware.

 

[Dragon1893]

I and a couple others did a few comparisons for the different versions of Resident Evil in a Sega Saturn games at 4K thread:

Saturn vs PS1: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=191962875&postcount=226
Saturn vs PS1 vs NDS: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=192074264&postcount=289
Saturn vs PS1 vs NDS part 2: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=192095552&postcount=295



The poor Saturn version had issues with keeping the faces in alignment.

Nice. At least the low resolution hid those hideous faces to some extent lol.

 

[c0de]

You have a link, by any chance? Would love to see that.

What? Adding perspective correct texture mapping? Sure:
http://forums.pcsx2.net/Thread-Mile...correct-rendering-with-GTE-accuracy-of-course
http://ngemu.com/threads/peteopengl...gl2-plugin-w-gte-accuracy-hack.160319/page-54
It seems early stages but interesting nonetheless!

 

[MrCunningham]

Nice. At least the low resolution hid those hideous faces to some extent lol.

Yeah, I think the Saturn version suffered from swimming vertices which caused the quads to go out of alignment and cause some really terrible looking faces.

If this video does well I'll do Quake 2 PSX and the two N64 Quake games

Yeah and you posted this on page 1. But I think the classic Quake comparisons are very timely given that the DOS version of Quake will be celebrating its 20th anniversary on June 22nd. It is a pretty good timing.

 

[Accoun]

^ LOL @ that Saturn pic! What a face!

Indeed. Someone should take it as the avatar and not let it go to waste, haha.

 

[Iztok Mravlja]

I remember reading about this when it came out and was really fascinated. I had a PC with a Voodoo card at the time and Quake was my favorite game, so I was very interested to see the Saturn handle it so well.

I also loved Exhumed, that game was just so good.

 

[Iztok Mravlja]

Heh, not really. It's coated in colored lighting throughout. Definitely feels like the tech team was just having too much fun with the engine.

Colored lighting was all the rage at the time, with this feature being one of the main new things in Quake 2. So naturally, everyone had to have it. Kind of like lens-flare at a different time in gaming.

 

[Sho Nuff]

I'm at work now and I sit next to one of the three programmers who was on Saturn Quake. He got a real kick out of the video.

 

[c0de]

I'm at work now and I sit next to one of the three programmers who was on Saturn Quake. He got a real kick out of the video.

Squeeze everything out of him!

 

[Accoun]

Colored lighting was all the rage at the time, with this feature being one of the main new things in Quake 2. So naturally, everyone had to have it. Kind of like lens-flare at a different time in gaming.

Yeah, even John Romero thought it was HUGE when he saw Quake 2 on E3 and it made him switch from Q1 to Q2 engine for Daikatana.
Which turned out to be a very bad idea.

 

[MrCunningham]

Indeed. Someone should take it as the avatar and not let it go to waste, haha.

More:

Jill

PS1

Saturn

PS1:

Saturn:

Chris (Saturn):

 

[dark10x]

I'm at work now and I sit next to one of the three programmers who was on Saturn Quake. He got a real kick out of the video.

That's pretty awesome, actually.

 

[M3d10n]

SS VF3 was real and I think they did show footage at one (closed-doors?) event in Japan but I believe the footage of "SS VF3" shown publicly outside of Japan was confirmed to be a mockup based on the arcade version and not representative of the actual SS version.

One of the rumours about SS VF3 was that it used a co-processor cartridge that went in the module slot. I wonder if that same module was being used for SS Shenmue?

AFAIK there were two versions of SS VF3, one using the fabled expansion cart and another one made with the (also fabled) new SDK libraries which were supposed to finally make the stock Saturn hardware sing and was also being used to make Shenmue (I think there was a 3rd game being developed using it, but I can't remember much about it).

I think the one using the new libraries was the only one ever shown in the wild, but AFAIK no footage of it exists.

 

[cireza]

More:

In 320*240 with scanlines, I think you would have a much harder time noticing this. Personally, I never noticed this.

 

[MrCunningham]

In 320*240 with scanlines, I think you would have a much harder time noticing this. Personally, I never noticed this.

Oh I know, these would be very much hidden at their native resolution. But the high res images were posted in a 4K Sega Saturn emulation thread, and it is interesting to take a good look at these models in HD because it really helps highlight the differences in geometry and textures.

 

[M3d10n]

In 320*240 with scanlines, I think you would have a much harder time noticing this. Personally, I never noticed this.

In the few close up camera angles you could tell something wasn't exactly right with their faces.

 

[Sho Nuff]

AFAIK there were two versions of SS VF3, one using the fabled expansion cart and another one made with the (also fabled) new SDK libraries which were supposed to finally make the stock Saturn hardware sing and was also being used to make Shenmue (I think there was a 3rd game being developed using it, but I can't remember much about it).

I think the one using the new libraries was the only one ever shown in the wild, but AFAIK no footage of it exists.

OK, about this --

In Japan I had a buddy who had been at Sega during most of the 90s and I grilled him HARD on this shit back in, uhh, maybe 2005 or so. He told me he'd never seen an expansion pack-enabled version, but he did see a prototype running Jacky vs. Pai on the Chinatown rooftop stage. He said it was 30fps on a stock Saturn and looked great, but the engineers were like "yeeeeeah we probably can't hit 60" and that was what killed the project. I asked him if he had a build and he was cagey about it.

But yeah, somewhere out there there's a VF3 demo that runs on a stock Saturn.

 

[c0de]

I can't believe where this thread went. Already bookmarked ;-)

 

[cireza]

In the few close up camera angles you could tell something wasn't exactly right with their faces.

Ok, I will take your word for it

 

[Panajev2001a]

I've actually continued to play Saturn Quake again after doing this video and...I'm having a weird amount of fun.

I hate to trot out the whole "Dark Souls" comparison, but it's giving me a similar vibe that I don't necessarily feel with the PC original.

Why? Two reasons, really.

The main thing is that the controls aren't very good but just manageable enough to feel playable. Since you have to rely on health packs and such, getting through the stages requires a lot of care and attention. There are traps and areas where you'll just get ripped to shreds if you're not prepared. Really requires you to take your time and plan out your attacks unlike the PC game where you can shred through enemies with little issue. You also can only save between levels so running into a dangerous foe near the end can result in repeating the whole stage. Higher stakes, easier death, and tricky combat definitely makes for a strangely fun experience.

Secondly, the Saturn game is dark and dreary in a way that none of the other versions are. It just feels super grimy in a way that I'm liking. The mix of the original Quake soundtrack with these super dark visuals and strange color choices leads to a very moody game.

I've played Quake to death on the PC but going through the Saturn game again is a weird twist on something that I'm familiar with.

I also booted up the N64 game again for comparison. That version looks much more like GLQuake with low-res textures and simplified geometry. I was surprised to find that the Saturn version does a better job of replicating some of the more complex arenas better than N64.

Of course, the N64 game runs almost completely smoothly at 30fps, had a full-screen view of the action, and plays much better. It also features cool colored lighting all over the place and hugely improved sky boxes.

Unfortunately, it's way too bright and colorful. It feels vibrant and looks nice but it loses a lot of the atmosphere. It's like GLQuake taken to its extreme. GLQ never felt as gritty or dark as the original software renderer and Quake 64 goes further in that direction.

I hated GLQuake's rendition of many weapons which did not actually work as dynamic light sources as well as the software renderer weapon effects did.

 

[MrCunningham]

OK, about this --

In Japan I had a buddy who had been at Sega during most of the 90s and I grilled him HARD on this shit back in, uhh, maybe 2005 or so. He told me he'd never seen an expansion pack-enabled version, but he did see a prototype running Jacky vs. Pai on the Chinatown rooftop stage. He said it was 30fps on a stock Saturn and looked great, but the engineers were like "yeeeeeah we probably can't hit 60" and that was what killed the project. I asked him if he had a build and he was cagey about it.

But yeah, somewhere out there there's a VF3 demo that runs on a stock Saturn.

Yeah, I can totally see them killing the project because the game couldn't hit 60FPS. Sega was a stickler for hitting target framerates in their fighting games. The original Virtua Fighter ran at 30FPS, because that is what the arcade game ran at, VF2, Fighting Vipers, Fighters Mega Mix and Last Bronx all ran at a perfect 60 to maintain that smooth arcade gameplay. Virtua Fighter 3 at 30fps would've been a travesty.

 

[dark10x]

OK, about this --

In Japan I had a buddy who had been at Sega during most of the 90s and I grilled him HARD on this shit back in, uhh, maybe 2005 or so. He told me he'd never seen an expansion pack-enabled version, but he did see a prototype running Jacky vs. Pai on the Chinatown rooftop stage. He said it was 30fps on a stock Saturn and looked great, but the engineers were like "yeeeeeah we probably can't hit 60" and that was what killed the project. I asked him if he had a build and he was cagey about it.

But yeah, somewhere out there there's a VF3 demo that runs on a stock Saturn.

Now that is fascinating. I always doubted the existence of an expansion pack version but I'm surprised to learn that they really did have something up and running on a stock system. If they were only hitting 30fps, I wonder if the team opted for a lower resolution 240p mode or if they insisted on the higher res interlaced mode that we saw in VF2?

I hated GLQuake's rendition of many weapons which did not actually work as dynamic light sources as well as the software renderer weapon effects did.

I also dislike that aspect. The other major thing is the water. The changes to the surface and underwater effects were for the worse in GLQuake. I loved the distortion effect in the software mode.

Also, at the time, I didn't realize you could adjust "gl_texturemode" to use "gl_nearest" and the game defaulted to "gl_linear_mipmap_linear". Blurred mip-maps just didn't fit the aesthetic of the game.

That's why I'm all about Engoo (though it doesn't even get everything just right).

Also...

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

Interesting video and interesting read through the thread.

Conversions and ports to other systems are always something that have fascinated me, be it something like this or converting between the only home computers and consoles because the results can be spectacular or spectacular failures.

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

Great video - DF's been doing a tremendous job recently.

I hilariously remember getting really hyped after reading about this port, being a saturn fanboy - though despite never having any interest in quake. Lo and behold, I got it for Christmas and never played it.

I've just always really hated Quake's world and visual style. *shrugs*

dark10x, more retro please!!

I tend to agree about this. Quake 1 is very brown and bland. I did have fun with the N64 port back when it came out, though.

 

[Y2Kev]

What is wrong with Jill's face!!! Were there really polygonal faces then? Why couldn't the texture just carry over from ps1?

 

[sixteen-bit]

What is wrong with Jill's face!!! Were there really polygonal faces then? Why couldn't the texture just carry over from ps1?

Saturn uses quadrilaterals, not triangles like Playstation.

 

[IronicSonic]

I'd happily take that VF3 at 30fps though

It work for Namco's Soul Blade

 

[KKRT00]

Unfortunately, it's way too bright and colorful. It feels vibrant and looks nice but it loses a lot of the atmosphere. It's like GLQuake taken to its extreme. GLQ never felt as gritty or dark as the original software renderer and Quake 64 goes further in that direction.

But GLQuake's framerate and AA though. I'll never forget seeing and then playing GLQuake MP for a first time, so glorious.

VF 3 was bonkers. I saw and played it on a gaming convention and it was the best graphics i've seen to date then, amazing experience.

Btw this thread is getting more and more interesting and bigger, and i still havent got time to even watch original video lol

 

[MrCunningham]

Saturn uses quadrilaterals, not triangles like Playstation.

Yeah this. The models had to be rebuilt from scratch for the Saturn because of quads. It also looks like the textures had to be dropped in resolution and colour depth to accommodate for the different memory structure of the Saturn. The Saturn game also lacks the gouraud shading of the PS1 game.

Also...

Bwa ha! Honestly, I was trying to get the best screenshots I could with each model in the Saturn game, and I just couldn't do it no matter what angle I aimed the characters at. Just shifting the model by even a pixel resulted in some weird facial distortions. That was the best I could get it without the face looking even more broken. It also didn't help that the characters have idle animations that could easily cause polygon break up by just offsetting the model.

I kinda had the same issues with the PS1 game too, sometimes positioning the character in a certain way would result in some bad polygon warping and weirdness on the character model faces too, but it was nowhere near as sever as the Saturn game.

 

[Sho Nuff]

Now that is fascinating. I always doubted the existence of an expansion pack version but I'm surprised to learn that they really did have something up and running on a stock system. If they were only hitting 30fps, I wonder if the team opted for a lower resolution 240p mode or if they insisted on the higher res interlaced mode that we saw in VF2?

Oh shit I'd asked about this too. Yeah, it was low-res 240p, I believe he mentioned it had the gouraud shading a la Fighting Vipers/Fighters Megamix.

The biggest problem with the game (aside from the 3D backgrounds) was doing the collision/inverse kinematics stuff; the stages with multiple floor heights would have been a real bear, compared to a game where you're just fighting on a flat surface.

 

[Just_myles]

I like the chunkiness of Saturn games. Lol. Even the Tomb Raider port, which is obviously inferior to the PSX version, I still play occasionally...

Transparencies doh...

 

[Shadow Hog]

I don't think emulator screenshots are really the best way to compare ports of a game, since now you've got emulator inaccuracies potentially muddying the end results.

At any rate, I tried to get the faces in Resident Evil to warp like that on my actual Saturn, but couldn't really produce anything notable (though I've also barely played the game). The emulator that has all those swimming vertices also momentarily glitches up the backgrounds whenever the camera angle shifts, and completely screws up the graphics layer ordering in the options menu and title screen such that you can't read anything, so I can't help but feel it's not really a good illustration.

 

[sn0man]

A game I've always wanted to see a deepish dive on, engine wise, is Rebellion's first AvP on PC. That engine was way ahead of its time.

Agreed. A deep dive on this amazing engine would be great too!

 

[Celine]

OK, about this --

In Japan I had a buddy who had been at Sega during most of the 90s and I grilled him HARD on this shit back in, uhh, maybe 2005 or so. He told me he'd never seen an expansion pack-enabled version, but he did see a prototype running Jacky vs. Pai on the Chinatown rooftop stage. He said it was 30fps on a stock Saturn and looked great, but the engineers were like "yeeeeeah we probably can't hit 60" and that was what killed the project. I asked him if he had a build and he was cagey about it.

But yeah, somewhere out there there's a VF3 demo that runs on a stock Saturn.

Oh shit I'd asked about this too. Yeah, it was low-res 240p, I believe he mentioned it had the gouraud shading a la Fighting Vipers/Fighters Megamix.

The biggest problem with the game (aside from the 3D backgrounds) was doing the collision/inverse kinematics stuff; the stages with multiple floor heights would have been a real bear, compared to a game where you're just fighting on a flat surface.

Oh very interesting.

 

[MrCunningham]

I don't think emulator screenshots are really the best way to compare ports of a game, since now you've got emulator inaccuracies potentially muddying the end results.

At any rate, I tried to get the faces in Resident Evil to warp like that on my actual Saturn, but couldn't really produce anything notable (though I've also barely played the game). The emulator that has all those swimming vertices also momentarily glitches up the backgrounds whenever the camera angle shifts, and completely screws up the graphics layer ordering in the options menu and title screen such that you can't read anything, so I can't help but feel it's not really a good illustration.

In all fairness those screenshots were taken with Yabause, which is not the best Saturn emulator out there. It is fast emulator and it also supports OpenGL rendering, but it is also hack-y and not the most accurate. Since I do not have a Saturn, and I haven't owned one in a long time . Here's a few more screenshots from SSF, which does go for accuracy over performance. SSF still isn't perfect Saturn emulation but it comes so much closer to emulating the actual hardware than Yabause does:

There is still some facial distortion going on here, but it is nowhere near as noticeable because the game isn't running at 2048x1536 which is 6.4x the resolution of the original game.I think once you see these things rendered in high resolutions, you really start to see where they fall apart at the seems. But the lower resolutions can really mask it.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Emulator screenshots need to die. 240p capture hardware is readily available, and captured images can be made larger with integer scaling.

 

[MrCunningham]

Emulator screenshots need to die. 240p capture hardware is readily available, and captured images can be made larger with integer scaling.

Sure, I'll just drop down $100 + shipping for that used Saturn, $40 dollars for Bio Hazard, another $50 for a regional cartridge and an additional $200+ for some nice capturing hardware just so I can make a post on NeoGAF with some scanlined images

But really, I am not going to go to that extreme when a few screenshots from SSF can still be suffice. Though I have thought about buying a Japanese model Saturn (since they seem to be the cheapest) as well as a regional cartridge.

 

[@MUWANdo]

Yikes, you weren't kidding. Are there any areas in Q64 that don't use colored lighting?

Garish disco lighting was the hallmark of that era of FPS games, especially on consoles. Seriously, every fuckin' game had at least one section that was drenched in primary hues for no reason.