Hamilton 970

[Jskirk]

This is the watch I posted yesterday. I cannot seem to find a whole lot of discussion on this grade. It is very nice and with only around 2800 made, a low production watch. So the few that I have found images of, the inscriptions on the movement are a little different positions, and the isn't any grade 970 on them. Is the grade mark more uncommon.
Also this being stem set,is it a railroad approved grade.
Does anyone have a similar one to show?
Thanks
Jay

 

[grtnev]

Very nice watch - I very much like the grade.

I have a 970 as well as the hunting variant 971. Refer to the pictures.

The grade 971 I have is in a Keystone 14K case and belonged to Fred Heusel of Ann Arbor, MI. Fred and Mary Heusel owned the City Bakery at 206 E. Huron St., Ann Arbor, MI, from the mid-1890's until Fred's death in 1921. The cuvette of this watch is inscribed: "Fred Heusel, Ann Arbor, Dec 25, 1905".

These are very nice Hamilton high grade watches that are often overlooked by the collecting community. Also, since these grades are Model 1, pre-1914, variants, the damaskeening is very aesthetically pleasing - much more so than later, post 1914-15 Hamilton Model 1 and 2 grades where the damaskeening becomes relatively plain and simplistic.

The watch is what I would refer to as "railroad grade" (and yes I know some on this forum take exception to that wording) in that it is every bit the quality timekeeper as an approved railroad standard watch, i.e., 21j, adjusted to temperature, isochronism, and 5 positions - but since it is pendant set as opposed to lever set, by 1905-1906 it would not have been allowed on most railroads which by that time required lever setting for any standard watch.

For those not familiar with the 21j, grade 970 and 971:

• the open face grade 970 was produced from 1901 to 1907 with a total production of 2810 movements
• the hunting grade 971 was produced from 1902 to 1906 with a total of 2,497 movements.
• Both were grades were pendant-set and replaced the earlier 17j, 966 and 967 grades.
• Both the open face, 970 and hunting grade 971 were priced to the consumer at $34.00

Richard

 

[Jim Haney]

The reason for the slightly different font and marking location was your was old stock, originally finished in 1907 and at that time grade number were not marked on the watches.

Your watch was sold to a NY dealer on 3-31-1914 and by this time grades were marked on the movement,so Hamilton marked your movement with the grade because Grades were marked on movements at this time.

Richard has posted some good info on the 970-971 grades above.

 

[Jskirk]

Thankyou for the great info Richard and Jim. So Hamilton also added the 5 Positions wording when finishing this one.
Jay

 

[grtnev]

So Hamilton also added the 5 Positions wording when finishing this one.
Jay

I would assume so - same time they added the grade no., “970”, ca: 1914 when it finally left the factory.

Hamilton closed out their remaining stock of grade 970 in 1917-18 selling that stock to A. N. Anderson (a well known Minneapolis distributor and retailer of watches) at $14/movement.

Richard

 

[Bila]

Just out of curiosity where does Hamilton state that this Gr970 was a "Model 1" due to it's damaskeening type, I have never read that from memory. I have seen this stated by Collectors also for the Grade 992, does someone have Hamilton Factory paperwork that states this, or is this just modern Collectors appropriating and using the terms of Model 1 and Model 2 for their own identification purposes?

 

[grtnev]

I don’t know that Hamilton made the distinction.

Damaskeening differences not withstanding, my understanding is that many collectors have adopted this terminology to distinguish 16s, 3/4 plate movements as:

Model 1 - two screws in the winding wheel

Model 2 one screw in the winding wheel.

As far as damaskeening is concerned, somewhere in the 1914-15 timeframe, Hamilton began to simplify their damaskeen patterns - I believe this was independent of any implied “model” designation.

If I’ve mis-stated something, I’m sure the Hamilton experts will comment.

Richard

 

[Jim Haney]

Hamilton did not differentiate any models within the grades.

When they changed DMK pattern on Popular Grades 992, etc. collectors used the term to know the difference between the patterns changes but officially there were no Factory descriptions on Models 1 or 2 or whatever just something someone decided to call them incorrectly.

Richard, I was not aware of any changes to the early or late 970 &971 patterns.

 

[Bila]

Hamilton did not differentiate any models within the grades.

When they changed DMK pattern on Popular Grades 992, etc. collectors used the term to know the difference between the patterns changes but officially there were no Factory descriptions on Models 1 or 2 or whatever just something someone decided to call them incorrectly.

Richard, I was not aware of any changes to the early or late 970 &971 patterns.

Thanks Jim, that is what I thought also

 

[grtnev]

Richard, I was not aware of any changes to the early or late 970 &971 patterns.

Jim,

I’m not aware of a DMK pattern change for grade 970/71 either.

Best example in my mind of pre-1914 vs later DMK patterns is grade 992. Pre-1914 a very aesthetically pleasing DMK pattern compared to the later simplistic linear patterns.


For grade 992, Halligan does discuss “three models” of the grade - his words, not necessarily a formal Hamilton designation as Jim previously discussed.

Model 1 introduced ca 1908 (2 screws in winding wheel, elaborate DMK pattern)

Model 2 introduced 1 Feb 1915 (1 screw in winding wheel, narrow, linear DMK pattern)

Model 3 introduced Aug 1931. (992E, 1 screw in winding wheel, broad, linear DMK pattern)

Refer to attached.

Perhaps the use of Model 1 (2 screws in the winding wheel) vs Model 2 (1screw in the winding wheel) originated from this Halligan reference and has been carried over to other grades by the collecting community.

Richard

 

[Jim Haney]

Most of the Hamilton collectors refer to these as 1st DMK pattern or 2nd DMK pattern because that is what they are, not different Models.

 

[johnbscott]

The reference, in Richard's attachment, under Third Model, to it being "Automatically adjusted to Temperature" has caught my eye. The Third Model is described as having an Elinvar hairspring and a monometallic balance, so I assume that it is the 992E.

My understanding is that temperature adjustment on such a watch would be achieved by moving balance screws nearer to or further from the 90 degree positions (taking the balance arms to be on the zero axis) of the balance rim. This is in contrast to moving the screws, along the rim, nearer to or further from the balance arms, as on more common expansion balances.

I don't see anything automatic about either method of temperature adjustment. I suspect, though, that the description may have arisen from a developed manufacturing practice of bringing balances and hairsprings for Elinvar watches into adjustment together, but separately from the watch movements into which they would eventually be placed. Thus any completed Elinvar balance and hairspring combination could be assembled into any suitable watch movement. This is my assumption, comments welcome.

 

[Jim Haney]

The 3 distinct damaskeen patterns are the most logical way to identify these watches rather than referring to them a 1st, 2nd or 3rd models.

The 992E is a different watch because of the Elinvar balance system . The solid balance wheel coupled with the Elinvar hairspring was the reason that Hamilton said that the Temperature adjustment was automatic, because once it was poised and adjusted, it didn't have to be adjusted any further, See the 992E page below

 

[johnbscott]

The 3 distinct damaskeen patterns are the most logical way to identify these watches rather than referring to them a 1st, 2nd or 3rd models.

The 992E is a different watch because of the Elinvar balance system . The solid balance wheel coupled with the Elinvar hairspring was the reason that Hamilton said that the Temperature adjustment was automatic, because once it was poised and adjusted, it didn't have to be adjusted any further, See the 992E page below

View attachment 700277

Thanks, Jim. The Halligan notes on the 992E make very interesting reading. The concept of the 992B was already taking shape.